Battle of the Systems [which is best]

So which system do you use for Middle-earth RPGing?  What makes it better than all the rest?

May as well start with a good old fashioned flame war!

PS: As a side note, there is a new one coming soon from Cubicle7, though info is limited except a press release...

MERP with a few house rules. I've been using it for 20 years and I'm very comfortable with it, for all its undeniable flaws.

MERP was the first Role-play I ever bought, trying to think how long ago that was...

I asked for a beginners RP, because up until that time I had only ever played Dungeoneer, which is perhaps the simplest RPG ever written lol

I was, I think, 13 when I got MERP and it gave me a headache, literally...  but then a friend explained things and broke it down a bit and I loved it from then on

Today I think the best system is Pendragon which we have modified for to some extent.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pendragon_%28role-playing_game%29

MERP was pretty good but had too many tables which to really for information (though in active use one remembers results without consulting the tables so often). And all those "difficult" mathematical calculations: 78+45-25.   But it's nostalgic at least.

Definitely MERP for me. I've also played a lot of old D&D and Basic Role-Playing, and MERP just works a lot better for the setting.

In old D&D, you have a totally linear progression from one level to the next. A 3rd-level fighter is 3 times as good as a 1st-level fighter. Not very realistic. And your progression is based on killing and looting. Not good for actual stories.

In BRP, mostly everything is skill-oriented, so the main difference between say Aragorn and my mom is that Aragorn has a much higher chance of hitting. Not good for epic stories. And your progression is based on having used your skills during the adventure. Not too exciting.

MERP works a lot better, in my opinion. In D&D, characters get too powerful too soon, and in BRP, they never get powerful.

And I like the combat system too. The two-tiered approach with concussion hits and criticals is again a great mix between realism and heroism.

The magic system is pretty good too, but a bit of a poor fit for Middle-Earth.

(I recently got some used copies of Rolemaster, and I found that it messes up a lot of the things that MERP got right, but I guess that's a different discussion.)

I first tried MERP in my teenage years, then my brother started getting into Rolemaster. NOw some of you complain that MERP has too many rules, but I quit playing when my brother asked me to take 3 days creating a character in RM.

I've just got hold of the 2nd edition rules of MERP and am trying to set up a game.Really lookning forward to seeing how it goes.

How does 2nd ed. differ from 1st?

There's not a lot of important differences. I noticed on one of the combat tables that Fumble was UM 1-8 instead of UM1-3 in 1st ed combat screen. In the hard backed Collectors version of 2nd edition you get 16 pre generated characters for a quick start game, and one or 2 other helpfull bits & pieces but the rules are pretty much the same.

I like Rolemaster the best, but if the players are inexperienced then the game is problematic, however a modified Rolemaster/Harp could work out very well.

ICE now also have Rolemaster Express which is very like the Old MERP rule-set. -

But I'm enjoying staying RETRO with the original MERP rules.

Previously Ruairi ODúill wrote:

ICE now also have Rolemaster Express which is very like the Old MERP rule-set. -

But I'm enjoying staying RETRO with the original MERP rules.

I'm not familiar with the RE system.  However, the greatest flaw with the old MERP ruleset is the Skill system.  I think it is very limited with skill variety, and the optional skill section simply isn't enough to cover the skills a player will have.  Plus, with more skill categories/skills there is more unique caricature.  I would modify it in several ways, such as making it skill based, but that is another discussion.

What sort of skills did you feel were missing?

While the pre-defined skill-set was a bit narrow there was virtually limitless capability for developing secondary skills which the GM / Player felt were appropriate

the basic rules gave guidelines on 4 broad categories -

Lore skills,

Infulence skills,

Athletic skills

and Craft skills

with free reign given to the GM to develop more as he saw fit. Developemnt in these sills could vome from the allowed points in various Primary Skill categories based on the existing guidance or based on GM's decision.

There were also Martial arts skills ready defined (in the optional materials section)

Previously Morveer wrote:

Previously Ruairi ODúill wrote:

ICE now also have Rolemaster Express which is very like the Old MERP rule-set. -

But I'm enjoying staying RETRO with the original MERP rules.

I'm not familiar with the RE system.  However, the greatest flaw with the old MERP ruleset is the Skill system.  I think it is very limited with skill variety, and the optional skill section simply isn't enough to cover the skills a player will have.  Plus, with more skill categories/skills there is more unique caricature.  I would modify it in several ways, such as making it skill based, but that is another discussion.

For example, Rolemaster Fantasy roleplaying Awareness skill category is broken up into 3 categories: Perceptions, Searching, Senses.  Perceptions includes Alertness (unconscious observation) and Sense Ambush skills.  Seaching includes Detect Traps, Lie Perception, Locate Hidden, Observation (conscious observation), Poison Perception, Reading Tracks, Surveillance, Tracking.  Senses includes Direction Sense, Sense Awareness (each type developed separately, such as Sight or Touch), Situational Awareness (each type developed separately, such as Scouting Awareness or Sleep Awareness), Time Sense.  This is just one example of the many that Rolemaster offers, and significantly more complex with many more options than Merp.  Plus, each category has an individual resolution process, while each skill also modifies the roll.  In Merp the skill Perception pretty much sums up all of the above. 

 

 

What sort of skills did you feel were missing?

While the pre-defined skill-set was a bit narrow there was virtually limitless capability for developing secondary skills which the GM / Player felt were appropriate

the basic rules gave guidelines on 4 broad categories -

Lore skills,

Infulence skills,

Athletic skills

and Craft skills

with free reign given to the GM to develop more as he saw fit. Developemnt in these sills could vome from the allowed points in various Primary Skill categories based on the existing guidance or based on GM's decision.

 

There were also Martial arts skills ready defined (in the optional materials section)

 

Previously Morveer wrote:

How do you deal with bleed through from one skill to another?

an example would be the Foraging skill.

if someone has no foraging skill their perception is relevant. similarly if someone is has a very high perception skill surely that should affect related skills based on perception such as foraging?

Obviously this question applies to most systems

It would be even worse with an inexperienced GM

Previously Morveer wrote:

I like Rolemaster the best, but if the players are inexperienced then the game is problematic, however a modified Rolemaster/Harp could work out very well.

 

I did MERP for many years and swore by it. Still like it. However, once someone introduced me to GURPS it became THE system for me. The things I like in MERP are also in GURPS and the things which weren't so great in MERP are much much better in GURPS. There is nothing which MERP does which GURPS doesn't do better or, at the very least, I find I don't really miss. 

I guess the *only* thing I might miss is the very non-subjective experience point system in MERP. However, I just remember the true record keeping pain in the rear it could be and I find I don't miss it too much. 

The 2nd Edition rule book suggests that keeping track of characters experience points be handled by passing a pair of fecord sheets to two of the players. One handles injury and combat records to each player and NPC, another keeps a record of each event that occurs to each PC.

The GM simply needs to take this second sheet and compare the coded events against the XP charts to tot up the EXP that each cahracter has gained in a session. I find this takes about 20 minutes, but needs a calcuator.

Subtracting critical points from the ki9ll points requires cross referencing the two sheets.

I need to pay more attention to instructions on indicating special situations like single combat which attract a greater number of xp.

I've never played GRUPS, but one of my other players says he likes it.

Previously Ruairi ODúill wrote:

How do you deal with bleed through from one skill to another?

an example would be the Foraging skill.

if someone has no foraging skill their perception is relevant. similarly if someone is has a very high perception skill surely that should affect related skills based on perception such as foraging?

Obviously this question applies to most systems

 

 

Every skill category can be developed separately from a single skill, including stat(s) bonuses.  This bonus is added to every skill.  If there are no ranks in a skill the category bonus still applies along with the penalty.

Hi all.

You might be aware already, but there is a relatively massive BRP-conversion of Middle Earth in progress.

You can sneak a peak here: http://basicroleplaying.com/downloads.php?do=cat&id=32

These downloads are purged for images and other sensibles, but the creator can be contacted directly for some really nice PDF's.

Just giving you another option

I'm exited about c7's new game. They already have a couple of BRP-products in their catalogue. I know they have stated that the new game will have it's own, dedicated system, but if they had said they were going to run it on the BRP-engine, it would have been a very good fit. 

I really loved MERP back up until 2001 (when I moved and things got crazy) but that was partly because I built a full Visual Basic integration with Excel for it.  I basically input all the table from the books into excel spreadsheets and used VBA to run my adventure for me.

It would literally start from character generation, load the characters into arrays, then I could load up NPCs and monsters as well.  It tracked weather patterns, random encounters, etc and would even do combat for me.

On top of that, every action was appended to a log file, so afterward I could add up XP and even write it up as a storyline.  Once all that was done, being a GM was literally just deciding what things I would allow the system to do, and focusing on game play.  It looked up all the results for me.  The players LOVED it.

I finally found those old files, and dusted them off about two months ago.  Unfortunately, I'm going to have to do some reporgramming to get it working again.